Episode 002: Is Being Stranded a Problem? Cast Away (2000) with Marc Klippenstine

Join Alex and Dr. Marc Klippenstine on discussion of the psychological concepts in Robert Zemeckis’s Cast Away (2000), starring Tom Hanks and a volleyball named Wilson.

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Legal stuff:
1. All film clips are used under Section 107 of Title 17 U.S.C. (fair use; no copyright infringement is intended).
2. Intro and outro music by Sro (“Self-Driving”). Used under license CC BY-SA 4.0.
3. Film reel sound effect by bone666138. Used under license CC BY 3.0.

Episode Transcription

<Electronic intro music>

Alex Swan: Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of the CinemaPsych Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Alex Swan. We have a great show for you today…. And interesting one too–one you might not actually think about, watching the film, but it is a fantastic piece of fodder for psychology. I want to thank everyone who’s listened to the first couple of episodes thus far. It’s been great seeing how many shares and likes and listens… getting feedback from everyone, it’s been fantastic. Please keep doing that. Please keep sharing the show far and wide, it’s awesome. I want to get as many people listening to this as possible, of course–of course, I do. I want to thank a-a donor since the last time we were recorded an episode. So Jason Spiegelman coming in with a solid donation to help us keep moving the show along.

Alex: Without further ado let’s jump into the episode because we have a lot to talk about. My guest host today is Dr. Marc Klippenstine. He received his PhD and Master’s degree from York University in Toronto–which is in Canada, of course–in social psych, with a focus in legal decision-making and jury decision-making. I love those two topics. This research examined the role of juror expectations regarding sexual assault victims and the impact of the adjudication of the case through the legal system. He is currently department chair and professor of psychology at East Central University. His research and teaching interests include forensic psychology, physiological psychology, and he teaches the research and statistics courses at both the graduate and undergraduate levels. He has been at ECU since 2007 and is the current chair of the IRB committee–hey, me too! He and his partner also run a polled Hereford cattle farm and have an 18 month old at home. So he’s got his hands full! Marc, go ahead and say hi to everyone. 

Marc Klippenstine: Hi everyone. You actually did pretty good, it’s Polled Hereford, so, that’s pretty good– 

Alex: <laughter> OK, polled, OK, sounds good… How’s it going? 

Marc: Everything is well. You know, it is a busy time of year. It’s our fair season, and it’s busy at work, beginning of a new semester and so it is all fantastic. I’m enjoying the work and home aspects and everything is jiving pretty well. So, which is good, I’ve been having a good time.

Alex: Awesome. Well, I’m glad you’re with me today to talk about a great film, but before we get to the film, I just want to know a little bit more about you. Let’s have the um, the listeners find out a little more about you. So the first thing that I’m going to be asking all of my guest hosts: what do you love about film?

Marc: You know, film for me has always represented family time. You know, a time when I get to spend time with those people that are important in my life. Whether that be my son when we’re watching a cartoon, or my wife in a favorite movie we watch. Or even growing up, watching with my parents and watching movies with my brother. It’s always been about family time. And I’ve always enjoyed that aspect of film. Um, so, or hanging out with my friends, too, it’s included–family and friends. So I really have enjoyed that component of film. You know, just as an example of of that: you know, when I was growing up, and this kind of dates me a little bit but, you know this is in the time when VCRs. You know, they’re kind of expensive, so you didn’t have them in your home necessarily and we were definitely not able to afford one and so during special occasions we would rent a VCR for a birthday. And my mom would let us rent as many movies as we wanted. And so, we’d-we’d rent all those fantastic 80s movies like The Goonies or you know, anything starring Stallone or-or Schwarzenegger. You know, all those-all those action movies and we just watch them over and over and over again. And that just really became a large part of my childhood and some of my best memories were going and renting that-that video tape, and then eventually DVDs either with my brother or my family, um, as I grew up. And-and really growing up watching all those different movies. So all of that brings me back to and connects me to my past and in my current, you know, life. You know, me and my wife still refer to a lot of movie lines in our day-to-day activities, you know, a lot of Ace Ventura lines or lines from some of our favorite movies make it in day-to-day conversation. And, you know, it really is just a neat part of how film connects people… is you can see a movie line and everybody knows what you’re talking about, that scene, that movie with you and it became an experience, a moment, a memory… And that-that’s my favorite part of what movies represent and what film can bring to the classroom. Just as a-as a another example, you know, me and my brother would go rent movies, and we’d–that was the time we got to drive a car around and so, we would often try to go to the farthest movie rental place that we could in town. You know, sometimes 20 minutes away and I’m sure they had those movies at the movie store 5 minutes away but it’s a time for us to hang out, and get in the car and have a little bit of freedom and Independence. And-and that really helped me grow up… it was a part of my-of my coming-of-age. You know, you see that a lot in the movies and it’s not much different in real life. You-you develop and become connected to those parts of the media and the environment that you’re exposed to while you’re growing up during that time. Sp building on all that you know that’s that’s kind of why I always wanted to bring film into the classroom as I want students to feel that connection. This is-this is their coming-of-age. And so if I can put a movie and I can connect it to a psychological concept, then they’re going to remember that concept when they see that movie for the rest of their lives. And that’s something that I can have a very powerful impact and powerful influence on them. And-and I try to use my powers for good and teach them something that I want them to know about… teach them something that I think is relevant, to them being a good member of society.

Alex: Sure… and that sort of jumps me into the next film… so you mentioned just then that you do combine film and teaching because of the, you know, familial aspects. So… now… you do that–what do you want your students to get from you doing that?

Marc: You know, I think–that’s a great question–is I want them to get that psychology is everywhere, psychology is in everything around us. It is part of-part of everything in our life. And you see it in movies, in the media–you see it everywhere and they’re making that connection. You know, I want them to know that psychology is in their home, it’s in the movie theaters, it’s all around them in the media, and-and it’s important for me to get across to them, because they may not remember the definition of this concept or that concept. But they will remember that psychology is everywhere.

Alex: Yeah that’s-that’s actually my reasons for putting films in my classes. I haven’t really said much about it in-in any of the other episodes, but like, yeah I want to have them see where that-that psychology is everywhere, and this art medium is just one of the many places. So yeah… awesome!

Marc: I think psychology can help bridge that gap between me and my students. You know, there’s that generational gap that keeps getting bigger and bigger and goes back to the that general joke that, you know, college students stay the same age but professors keep getting older and older. At least I get the feeling like I’m getting older and older. But I can bridge that gap…if I watch a movie that has one of those popular movies, then I talk about it and I use it as an example, then I’ve made that connection. You know, I can see them go “hey, this is someone who understands me… this is someone who is interested in something I’m interested in.” If I can make that connection, I got them… and then I can talk about concepts and definitions and structures and ideas, t-tests–whatever it is–and yes I-I do use film even in statistics–but part of it is trying to make that connection. You know, it really, truly is all about that connection. If I can–if I can make that connection, it’s priceless… it’s more–it provides more give back to me and to them than anything else I can do in the classroom… if I can make that connection–and-and that is why film is so great because every person’s idea of film is so different and everyone makes that connection in a different way, but yet it still works. And it works across all those different formats. You know, the simplest way I can say it, is it really does make you know me connected to them and them connected to me, but it also makes psychology part everything. And it’s really that double-whammy, that combo effect that I love about using movies in the classroom.

Alex: Now, I mentioned very briefly, some of the research that you do. Do you have anything currently going on with research? I know you’re busy with doing a lot of other stuff but uh…

Marc: So yeah, you know, research is still part of what I do but, I’m at a teaching college, you know, the primary goal of what I do is to teach classes. And even as department chair, the little bit of release time, I’m still teaching a lot of classes, and I’m usually overloaded, cuz we’re usually short-staffed. And so, a large part of what I do in terms of research is the supervision of student research. You know, Master’s theses I’m doing one of those right now and I’m working on, you know, every year I seem to have a-a honor’s thesis project or two. And then I teach the statistics, writing and design, and experimental psych rotation, where I get students to three classes, and through those, I teach them the research experience. So they learn how to do statistics, they learn how to design an experiment and then they get to run an experiment. And these are student-run experiments, from beginning to end. It’s a great way for me to connect–another great way for me to connect with students. It includes, you know, them engaging in their own research and their own ideas and me, kind of, guiding them through that process. And-and I still try to engage a little of my own research here and there, but it has shifted a lot to student supervision of research as opposed to conducting my own research. You know, when I do get to do my own research, it tends to focus on those expectations and expectancies that occur in the legal system. Particularly as jurors, you know, hear a story, particularly about, you know, victims–and I’m focused primarily on sexual assault victims–you know, their expectations and beliefs regarding that victim and their behavior, and how that influences their adjudication through the judicial system. And-and it’s-it’s an interesting perspective because a lot of it has to do with beliefs, which have a negative impact on that victim, but which shouldn’t and so that’s an expectations and a series of beliefs which influence their case sometimes in a very, you know, negative way and I try to get involved in such a way that I’m studying that process and I’m trying to get information out so that we can help victims and help them through that process.

Alex: Excellent…and-and that is with a focus on the American justice system, I imagine?

Marc: Yeah that-that’s actually a good point. I actually started–currently yeah, most of what I do is on the American legal system. But when I started it was taking a specifically Canadian legal context and a lot of the research I had done was replication of stuff that happened in a US environment and then taking it and spinning it towards the Canadian legal system. So yeah, there was-it was a little bit of a challenge learning the difference between the two. But I was kind of more trained in the Canadian perspective and now kind of taken to applying it to that US legal system. You know, definitely whenI moved back down here, I definitely refocused more on that American legal context, and try to jump off from that perspective. You know, there was-there was a lot of challenges when I made that switch over between the two because there was a lot of terms that are different, a lot of different procedural effects and obviously case laws are different. And so it was a bit of a challenge but it was-it was a neat challenge, and you know, now that I got kind of things switched over, I think I would have difficulty going back to that original situation, or that Canadian context, I guess.

Alex: <laughter> Yeah, you kind of had to redo some-redo some work to get–

Marc: Yes definitely, took a little bit to kind of get back up and running with those materials and get everything working in the way that you know that fit this environment vs. that environment.

<film reel sound effect>

 Alex: So what film do you have for us today, Marc?

Marc: Well it is one of my favorite films and you know has a couple things that I really love about it. It has my favorite actor and it’s one that I can easily show on class. You know, it is pretty innocuous in terms of content so there’s not a lot of language or other warnings that I have to let students know about. We can just enjoy that film and the movie is Cast Away, starring Tom Hanks.

Alex: Cast Away! Tom Hanks, directed by Robert Zemeckis. Came out in the year 2000.

Marc: Yeah, also dates me, particularly when I pick those older films. You know it’s actually at a point where you know a lot of my students weren’t even born yet when this movie was made so really does put some date on me as a professor.

Alex: Tom Hanks looks great in it. Watched it recently and he looks fantastic. I mean, he doesn’t really age much, but he looks great in that film.

Marc: Yes yes yes, he does. You know, I rewatched the movie between yesterday and today. Don’t really ever get to watch a movie straight through anymore with a toddler around, so it’s usually you know spits and spurts as I get through it but it still holds up. I still think it’s a great movie.

Alex: And for those who are not familiar with Cast Away–I don’t know how you couldn’t-couldn’t be familiar with it–but for those of you who aren’t itis the story of a man named Chuck Noland, played by Tom Hanks, and he is a… I want to say systems manager for FedEx, the logistics company and his life is all about being-being on time. Think time–time is a major theme in the film and he is dating a graduate student. And before we jump into some of the psychology, I have to say as a former graduate student and Marc as a former graduate student but probably more in line with your experiences than mine, she was-she had to print or copy her dissertation, because the beginning of the film is set in 1995, so early days of the internet. She had to copy her dissertation–wow!

Marc: Yeah yeah, there’s a little bit off topic, but I actually remember faxing my dissertation to my supervisor… I had already moved out to Oklahoma so we’re still working on things and sending it via fax so I can get, you know, corrections and-and changes in a more timely fashion than mailing it, I guess.

Alex: <laughter> Yeah it was-it was an early “haha” moment. Anyways, this graduate student–her name is Kelly and she is played by Helen Hunt. And really those are the two main names in the film. There other supporting characters but really it’s it it’s Tom Hanks and Helen Hunt. And like I said, the film is directed by Robert Zemeckis. And, uh… on the way to a FedEx, I-I would guess, new office or some other office in another country to speed them up, because they suck, because apparently that’s his job–speed up FedEx offices that suck. His plane crashes into the ocean and he is stranded for a while on a small outcropping island that I just could not suspend my disbelief every time I watched it how this island with foliage and everything on it and usable land was not settled or known about. So that was odd, but he’s there for a while and then you get great scenes–I’ll play for you a scene  about him making fire in a little bit, among other things. But we’re going to explore–Marc and I–we’re gonna explore an aspect of which blew my mind when he first suggested this. Because honestly hadn’t thought about it. Marc, what is that aspect?

Marc: Problem solving. You know, it’s a large chunk of the movie is just him solving problems. A large part of that first act–first and second act is him solving problems relating to being on an island. Yeah, it’s, you know, one of the most pressure that you can be under to solve problems.

Alex: Yeah, it’s being stranded by yourself on an island. You’re gonna solve some problems or gonna die.

Marc: You know, it really is just incredibly high pressure to get something accomplished. You know, survival… you have to survive so… very high-pressure situations.

Alex: Right. Now, you and I, like we said, we both rewatched the film and you had mentioned the problem solving aspect to me several weeks ago and I, when I rewatched it, I watched it with that lens and we were-we were making notes on this film and we basically came to similar conclusions, but you had a-a differing viewpoint from my–I’ll say you had a different viewpoint from my total viewpoint though you did share some of my-my analysis. So what I want to do is pit those two ideas together–or pit them against each other, let’s say and not sa-not so that there is one wrong or one’s right, or one’s better than the other, but that they’re two different ideas about problem solving that I think this film really can carry, both of them. So what is your general idea about problem solving in this film?

Marc: For me the problem solving in this movie kind of takes on a Gestalt approach. You know, this idea that the sum of the parts is greater than the whole, kind of concept. You know, it starts with this idea that you have to kind of represent this problem idea in your mind and then you kind of have to restructure that problem to be able to come up with solutions to it. It’s kind of both of those aspects playing off each other… that restructuring and representation kind of going back and forth as you kind of come across thi- this problem idea. You know, here you’re on a desert island and you need water to survive so you have to reorganize and restructure that concept of what water is or what you can drink and then try to solve that problem from that point. And you know and-and-and we’ll talk about this–I think we’ll talk about this in a little bit–but using coconuts to obtain that-that water…or rather, you know, something to drink. You know, this idea that you know you need water… “I don’t have water… how can I restructure, reorganize, my environment to solve this problem to come up with a solution that will let me survive this-this situation?” You know, kind of taking this concept idea, you know, the problem idea and looking at it a whole way and looking at those pieces in such a way that when you put them together you’re recreating and restructuring something that wasn’t necessarily there to begin with. And this approach specifically has a couple big problems that you often see when you’re trying to solve these problems and those kind of relate to functional fixedness, is one of them and mental set is the other one. And so both that functional fixedness and mental set kind of play together and-and kind of get in the way of-of successfully solving problem sometimes. You know, this is–these are things–or hindrances that I see you regularly and daily in our-in our lives. We have a cattle farm and so a lot of what we end up having to do is take something that was made for one purpose and use it for for something else. You know, this idea that I’ve fixed a lot of stuff with bailing wire and you know, that was not its intended purpose but yet it works for that situation. So when you’re when you’re looking at functional fixedness it’s this idea that it’s a hindrance because people hold certain objects as having a particular function, and sometimes it’s difficult to use it for a function that is not its intended purpose because you are so locked in on the idea that it can only be used for one of, you know, its original intended purpose. And so there is this hindrance that occurs in this situation. So if you have an idea of what you can do with something that can sometimes cause a hindrance in your ability to use it for something else. You know unless you can break that functional fixedness and get beyond that sometimes you’re trapped in that idea of what that tool can be used with…or can be used for. 

Alex: A good example  that many psychology students will see and-and maybe the lay public might be familiar with is Duncker’s famous matches and the candles problem. Participants were were given a scene and they were told, here are your materials for making a shelf that the candle can be-can stand and be lit. And in one scenario they are told that it’s a “box of matches” and in another scenario they’re just told that they have a match-they have matches and the candles. And in the first edition the one where they’re told they have a box of matches, they can’t get past the fixedness of  “that is a box of matches,” but in the other condition where they’re just told they have matches, they quickly see that they can make a shelf out of the box that the matches come in. And so that’- that’s an example of the functional fixedness of the box of matches that many students are told about Duncker’s research back in the middle of the 20th century.

Marc: Yeah, I love that example! It’s one I frequently use in class, cuz I think it’s just a great example of how-of how you problem solve. One of the ones that was brought up to me from a student is they were talking about taking the door off the hinges. You know, so they get that first pin out of the hinge because there’s no weight on the door, it’s all level and everything’s good and that first pin out, and then for the next 20 minutes or trying to find something that will pop out that other pin in the bottom part of the door and it took them forever to figure out that, “Hey, I’m holding something that fits perfectly in that hinge…The pin that I just took out!” It’s just a great example of that functional fixedness idea.

Alex: That’s actually really good.

Marc: You know, I’m just thinking, man that’s a great example. And he’s holding this thing that is used to hold the door together… this pin is used to hold the door together. Not necessarily something that is used to take the door apart. It’s the perfect example of a real life example of how this happens. This is just always been an example that is stuck in my mind as is a perfect example of functional fixedness and functional idea that the function that use something for really sets how you want to use that object in the future.

Alex: Right.

Marc: It leads you to literally wanting to do out of the box thinking, you know, trying to think of other ways that you can use these objects. 

Alex: Right. That is-that is a good life hack there. So what are the aspects of the problem solving with this Gestalt idea in mind that are-that are presented in the film? Do you have any examples of those?

Marc: Yeah, I mean there is a large chunk of the movie at the beginning part of that movie–probably a good 40 minutes where he is doing nothing but solving problems. You know, it’s one of my favorite parts of the movie to watch cuz all you hear is the sound of the waves and the wind and you’re just in Chuck’s mind as he’s there solving problems. You know, it feels like you’re there because there’s just no dialogue, there’s just-it’s just objects and him trying to solve things. It all comes down to, you know, it feels like you’re there in this quiet headspace with him, which is-which is how we tend to solve problems. You know, sometimes you’re solving problems with other people, but a lot of times our problem solving is-is by ourselves in those moments of quiet, where we’re trying to to make these–come up with these solutions. You know, just as examples from the movie: he’s on the island and FedEx stuff starts to wash up on the island. And he starts to the–he finally decides to open up these boxes and he starts to gather around what he finds and you know, it’s stuff like a dress, you know, where’s this leather corset part and a fishnet, and he-and he at first he thinks “You know, what am I going to do with this stuff?” Which he eventually turns the the fishnet part into an actual fishing net and he uses it to catch fish, or he uses VCR tapes–again something that doesn’t seem like it’s very useful on a-on a deserted island but he uses that to create a rope and tape… and it’s just a perfect example of how he kind of breaks to the functional fixedness that exist in these objects in order to come up with ideas and ways to use them that can help him to survive. You know all-both of these things just really demonstrates his ability to take an object and turn it around from what it’s intended function is and use it for something which is really beneficial for him to get off the island, you know. I don’t know what he would have done if a bunch of DVDs with a washed-up or something–maybe he could have used them as reflectives, help sign, or something–but you know the VCR turned into good rope and the fishnet turned into his ability to catch food.

Alex: What about the coconut scene?

Marc: You know, another example of this is the coconuts. You know, these coconuts come in these big giant husks and so he’s got to peel all that stuff off to be able to get inside. So at first he’s throwing these coconuts against the wall and nothing’s really happening. So then he finds some of that like, probably volcanic rock or something, that’s sharp and uses that to kind of bust into the husk, and is able to peel it back and uses–builds–smashing it with a rock and the rock shatters and turns into like a kind of like a-a stone ax. And then that’s stone ax he uses to like cut and chop into that husk. And then he finally gets the husk off and so now he’s left with innards of that coconut shell, and he immediately throws it against the rock wall thinking, this is it, I’m gonna get in there, and it busts all open and spills everything all over the place. He’s got the meat, but he kind of lost out on that fluid. You know, quickly he feels like he just wasted his, you know, efforts to bust in there and so now he he has to try again and he takes some of the other pieces of rock that were left there–smaller pieces–and then for the next coconut gets the husk off does all that, and then uses that the kind of drill a hole and then he can get at that coconut water or coconut milk, that you know, allows him to get something to drink before he was able to start collecting water. It’s just another great example of just working outside the box trying to break that functional fixedness for tools and ideas and trying to get something that helps him survive on that island. it’s a perfect example of how, you know, sometimes a little finesse and problem solving as opposed to frustration, you know, throwing that coconut against the wall–”I need something to drink, I don’t have anything to drink”–and using that finesse to solve that problem to get some fluid.

Alex: Right, yeah… and then what about the fire scene?

Marc: Yes the fire scene! One of my-one of my favorites in the movie. You know, the-the-the fire building scene kind of involves a metal set a little bit more than functional fixedness cuz he had been trying to solve it using the same methods that he had used in the past. So we all think of building a fire by taking the stick and having a perpendicular to the ground and then, you know, rubbing our hands across it spinning that stick. So he does this and he does it all day long cuz you know we started we see him in the day and at night, he hasn’t succeeded. And in fact, at one point he you know, cuts his hand, and-and there’s blood, and other things and he’s frustrated and all that stuff’s going on and he can’t create fire… he can’t get that fire to be created using that that previous mental set of how he thought you should build a fire. That preconception of how you should do that. You know, so at this point, his hands are sore, they’re cut and he goes back to that coconut to eat and he’s using stone axe to kind of saw the-the meat of that coconut and then at that point as he’s like sawing and sawing, and he stops, it’s like you can see that “aha” moment, that epiphany that kind of, “ah, I got it!” kind of pop in his head and he’s like, “I’ve been doing this the wrong way the whole time, I shouldn’t be spinning that stick, I should be pushing that stick.” And then rubbing the stick through a pushing motion seems to be a more efficient way for him to get more pressure and to build up the heat necessary for him to be able to, you know, start a fire. And-and it works just by changing that mental set, changing his what he thought was the right way of doing it until way that actually did work. You know, all in all, it’s just really is that perfect example of, you know, trying to solve a problem one-way realizing it doesn’t work and then using an analogy from something else to say, “ah, I should be doing it like this,” and then very quickly solving that problem, coming to that very quick resolution as you’re-as you’re issue trying to solve this problem.

Alex: Right and I’m going to go ahead and play that scene, just because that is-this is pure Tom Hanks and then we’ll come back to talking more about Gestalt problem solving.

<sounds of two sticks rubbing together>

Chuck: The air got to–the air got to it!

Chuck: <Having successfully lit a fire, putting more wood onto it> There we go! Light it up, c’mon! <Singing> “The time to hesitate is through!” <Throws more wood and gets briefly burned> Ouch! Haha, ouch! “No time to wallow in the mire. Try now, we can only lose. ‘Cause girl, we can’t get much higher. C’mon, baby, light my firrrrre!” <Takes a palm branch, lighting the end, then holding it up> There you go. There you go! It’s a signal fire! And it spells out S.O.S! <Embers start falling around him> Whoa! It’s a meteor shower! <Drops the branch back into the fire> Fireflies, go! Run! You’re free, you’re free! <The fire burns bigger> Yes! YES! Look what I’ve created. I have made FIRE. I…have made fire!

Alex: All right. You had a couple of other notes that you had for Gestalt on this one… and it has to do with how to find what the problem is. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that?

Marc: Um, yeah. When you look at the kinds of problems we come across in our day-to-day lives, you kind of see that there are really two types, two main categories that we come across. You know, ill-defined problems and well-defined problems. Well-defined problems have a solution that if you follow the correct procedure, you’ll come up with the answer. You know, math is a perfect example of-of a well-defined problem–if you follow the operands in-in the formulas and follow the procedures, you’ll come up with the answer. But not all problems are like that. Some problems are ill-defined problems in those ill-defined problems are more things that you know you start at point A and you need to get to point B, but how do you get from one to the other. You know, sometimes it’s difficult to know the solution between–to get from point 1-point A to point B to solve that next stage. When you look at a lot of the things that happen on the island–and the problems that he saw them–there are well-defined problems. You know he’s “once I figure out how to throw a spear and catch a fish I’ll have something to eat” so that is a very straightforward problem for him to solve. A lot of the problems on the island are ill-defined problems. You know, what this idea where “I know I had to get from A to B but how do I do it? How do I get from one to the other?” And if you-if you think about it the biggest one is just getting off the island now he knows that he’s on the island and how do you get off? How do you make that jump from-that leap from one place to the next.

Alex: Yeah, a major ill-defined problem.

Marc: It’s kind of-it’s kind of the key ill-defined problem of the entire movie! You know, it’s how do I get off the island? You know, it ties into stuff like how do I get off the–how do I get past the breaking waves, because they’re keeping me and pushing me back on? How do I store enough water that I can take with me so I won’t die immediately of thirst? What is the best time of year to try to make it off the island, cuz there’s those trade winds that shift at a particular time of the year? All of those go into helping him solve that ill-defined problem but it’s things that he doesn’t even know yet until he’s been there long enough. So eventually he know creates a calendar using that hole in the cave and can chart the time. He maps the wind and when it’s going to change based on that calendar. All of that goes into him solving, you know, that ill-defined problem of how you get off the island. It is part of that big package of solving something which is not easy to solve. You know, when you think about it we in academia live in that world of an ill-defined problem. We have students, for example, who know they want to have a career in psychology, but how did they accomplish that? How do they find out what they want to do? How do they find that career that they want to spend the rest of their life doing? And I think in a lot of ways that students connect with this idea of the ill-defined problem in the movie, you know, and-and to use that analogy of you know you’re stuck on a-on a desert island how do I get off? It’s not that much difference for them when they’re trying to think of their careers is “I know what I want to do, how do I make a career out of this?” And-and I think they make that connection pretty handedly when we watch this movie. In fact ,you know, I try to connect those points for them, even by saying you know imagine that this university is an island and you’re trying to get off the island. How do you get off the island? And it helps them–at least I feel it helps. You know, I think it really does help when they rephrase this concept of what-what are they doing there and what do they want to do in the future and how do you connect those points? You know, those are just a few examples that come to mind of how you can use that conception of ill-defined and well-defined problems, and how you can build it into discussions and jumping off points for your discussion with your students.

Alex: I like the example that you tell your students “how are you going to get off the island?” I love it! Especially if they are Survivor fans, right?

Marc: Yes, yes definitely! Yeah definitely.

Alex: Although I guess it’s not a good idea to get off the island in Survivor… I-I am mixing metaphors here… Ok that-that does that, I mean, these are all great points about Gestalt. And I love teaching my students about Gestalt problem solving because of the amazing, the wealth of examples that you can get them to actively be engaged in and it’s-it’s fantastic. When I was watching the film after–like I said after you told me about the problem solving aspect–I was coming at it from a different perspective. In a lot of the times Gestalt and the Information Processing approach are discussed in cognitive psych classes–even problem solving classes–so you essentially talk about the Gestalt and reframing and restructuring. So when I was watching the film the problem solving aspect was the information processing approach. And this is about the search for a solution: moving from an initial state to a goal state, but also conceptualizing the problem space in between those two states, right? And so this was a-this was first identified and discussed by Newell and Simon, two guys who were super fans of computers and so this is why this is called the information processing approach– because it’s using the idea that your brain is a computer. So the…the main, I guess I had to two particular examples going through this when I was watching the film again. So I actually will recast your examples of the coconut and the fire. I saw those both as an initial state and a goal state, right. The initial state of the coconut was that it was whole, hard to get into and the goal state is that I want some of that sweet, sweet coconut milk, right? And so he had to figure out how to get from a whole coconut to a coconut that was open, that where you get the meat of the coconut and where you can drink the coconut water, because at that point he didn’t have any sources of freshwater. The only thing he had was saltwater, so he had to go through a bunch of intermediate states in the problem space to get from the initial to the goal. And those are represented by the aspects of the scene like throwing it against the wall. That’s not working. Smashing a flint rock against it–that’s not working. Realizing that when he smashed the rock that it created a, sort of, a wedge shape, like an axe and realizing that an axe is better than a blunt force against it because you can get that sharp edge of the wedge into a groove on the husk. And then he opened it–fi-finally was able to get into it but he opened it with such force that all of the water spilled out of it. I mean luckily he had some food with the meat of the coconut, but you know, still had to move from one state to the next. SO that’s how I viewed that one. Similarly, with the fire example, he moved from an initial state, no fire, to goal state, having fire, and-and being able to solve those–being able to move from-from one state to the next in the problem space the in-intermediate space… is figuring out his hands moving from back and forth making the stick spin wasn’t working and then realizing, as you said, that the movement of the saw on the coconut could be used on the wood, is an intermediate state. And then realizing that he needed more air when he saw the smoke–another intermediate state, because he didn’t have fire yet–it was just smoke and so you realized he needed to get more air underneath the combustion point–where he had his little kindling in the wedge of wood–and then he moved on to another intermediate state and eventually he put more kindling on it and then he had fire, right? And all of those moves from intermediate state to intermediate state within the approach to this problem solving, the information processing approach, they are called operators, and those are the permissible moves, right? And so a nonoperator in the fire example would be like, let me just throw some water on it. That’s not going to help you move from from one intermediate state to another. You have to realize that, “oh, I need more air for this mixture to work a little bit better, right? So that’s what I saw in several of the-several of the other scenes was this information problem solving approach. But after you’ve described the Gestalt, I’m also in agreement that those are great… that’s a great way to look at it, too. And that’s the beauty of it, I guess. That’s why you use this one in your class, because you can talk about both and not be wrong and still blow everyone’s minds.

Marc: Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, I’m just kinda thinking of this now as we’re talking, it’s a great example of how different theories explain the same behavior and and how you can kind of maybe use this as an example in like a research class or as to how you can come up with different theories and different answers to the same question that still answer the question but they use different ways to get to that end state, that end idea of of what is the-what is the correct answer. Maybe not correct answer, but you know, the-the-the answer that seems to answer part of that problem. You know, it’s a great thing that you bring forth to students and then put into their minds is that, you know, not only are there different ways to explain different theories that explain what’s happening on the island, but it’s how science works. Science works by coming up with competitive theories–or competing theories–as to how things make sense, or you know, how-how the world works. You know, the reality is that there’s not always the same answer for the same behavior and-and you know, that’s just a fact of-a fact of science. And the fact is that both theories can be good at explaining… explaining the theories and bits and pieces of what’s happening in terms of problem solving.

Alex: Right. It really is. This is why I had to say at the beginning of the episode. This is wild. This is not a film that most people think about for using in psychology. Wild.

Marc: You know, that’s kind of the reaction I get from students when I say, ”hey we’re going to watch Cast Away in class as a way to talk about problem solving.” You know, and I dedicate three days in class to go through and watch this movie together with them. It’s a two and a half hour movie, and-and-and it’s just part of that experience. You know it comes at a point in the semester where they’re just ready for a break, we’re all ready for a break and I just love their reactions as we watch this movie together. You know, ultimately, because we’re watching it together really does create this collaborative group effect by experiencing the same stuff at the same time. Something that they can talk about in these concepts hopefully for the rest of their life when they think about them. Just an overall really great example of how you can use film in class, and movies that you might not even think about using. And take an eye from “what is-what do I see from a psychology perspective in this film that I can use to demonstrate principles to my students?”

Alex: Yeah, it’s great. This needs to be added, by the way–I’m probably going to go add this or at least tell them this needs to be added to the Indiana University or Purdue University list of cognitive science films because, I don’t think it is on there.

Marc: Yeah, yeah, that’s cool, that’s awesome.

Alex: I-i-it’s great. It has to be added to that. People cycle through that list and be like, “wait what? I’m sorry, what? Cast Away, no? This is not-this is not cognitive science.”

Marc: Yeah, exactly. But yeah, they’re going to be like, “the movie with the guy on an island, that’s cognitive psych, how is that possible?”

Alex: Yeah, yeah… “a FedEx guy? What is this about FedEx and-and cognitive science? No, I don’t believe you.” So that’s the cognitive science aspect of the film, but there are some social psych themes that we both picked up on. I said at the top of the show, as we were talking about–as I was introducing the film–one of the themes of the film is time and not having enough or not using it appropriately. You see that with the relationship between Chuck and Kelly at the latter not using it appropriately and then Chuck is all about you know efficiency and says these… really crass things about being on time and making sure that you do things in the quickest amount of time. So time is-is a big theme of the film and I think that from a filmmaker standpoint, that’s what Robert Zemeckis wanted you to gather. But I think there is a-another aspect to the time theme which is relationships. So Marc you had brought up some really good points about this in our note taking. What’s the-what’s the relationships aspect of Cast Away? 

Marc: Yeah, you know one of the big ones for me is the creation of-of Wilson. You know, Wilson is the volleyball that he finds on the island, as he gathers up all those FedEx packages and opening them. And during that scene where he’s building fire, he cuts his hand. You know, I think I mentioned that earlier and in that moment of frustration, he takes that volleyball and you know slams it against the wall, that rock wall, and in doing so creates Wilson by creating what looks to be like a face on this volleyball. You know, and so just by having a bloody hand and throwing that volleyball against the wall he creates-he creates a friend. He creates a confidant for him on this lonely–for his lonely travels on this island. You know, it does a couple of things: it’s-it’s a great movie-making device. It’s quiet for a large part of the movie and so it allows dialogue to occur. You know, I’m not typically a big fan of exposition in-in movies, but it works in this one. So it kind of moves that plot forward and allows him to discuss things in a way, so we know what’s going on, cuz it’s quiet… there’s no thought, there’s dialogue, there’s no conversation, without someone else being there and Wilson provides that something else. You know, it works in such a way that Wilson gives us a reason for Chuck to talk to somebody. You know, we all know when we’re sitting around completely alone, but a lot of times we don’t talk to ourselves and so it’s not realistic to think that someone’s just sitting there explaining everything out loud. I mean, that might happen a little bit but the Wilson character creates a way to do this that-that makes logical sense for the movie. You know, the creation Wilson kinda solves another problem for him–he needs a social interaction, you know. I-I take an evolutionary perspective on that-on this, in the sense that, you know, where we-we evolved to have a social component to our lives, and-and we crave it, we desire it, we-we miss it when it’s gone, we go out of our way to develop it. You know, ultimately, we are social creatures at our core and we need that social belonging to make us whole.

Alex: Mmhmm.

Marc: You know, nowadays–whether it’s through social media or in-in person–you know, we need to be around other people. It’s just-it’s just that simple: we-we find ways to do that. And-and for Chuck, he, you know, created Wilson to fulfill that need. And in society, we see that when that need is not met, that things happen. So in this moment of frustration, you know, Wilson is created and it creates someone who he-he can bounce ideas off of… he can you know, now have conversations with someone who acts as his logic person. You know, so Wilson becomes, you know, this friend and ultimately a piece of himself that kind of seems to be pulled out and placed into Wilson… someone that he can debate with and logic with and-and try to solve problems with. It really is just a piece of Chuck that’s created… you know, so someone that he can argue with him and come up with solutions. You know, at one point he’s arguing about how much rope is left on the island with Wilson. He’s-he treats Wilson as if he is not an inanimate object but his is-his is real as us conversing or having an argument with any of our friends. You know, he-he has debates with Wilson. He argues with Wilson over the best way to get off of the island. It’s just Wilson is as much of a character in this movie as-as anybody else is. You know, it-it–you know, one of the things I–when rewatching the movie, I saw was at one point, he’s in the cave as–he has a fight with Wilson. You know, he-he argues with him and then he gets frustrated and he-and he throws Wilson out the cave entrance. And then he immediately regrets it. Not much different than what would happen if we had an argument with a loved one or friend. A lot of times you say things in that heated moment that you that you wish you hadn’t said… so he immediately tries to go out and find Wilson, because he’s sorry–he’s sorry that that he said those things and he-and he wants to-to kind of-to kind of ask for forgiveness from Wilson. You know, it’s-it’s kind of a perfect example of what happens if during an argument where we might walk away from a loved one in-in a heated argument and then immediately regret doing so… and he tries to correct what he did wrong. He tries to right that wrong with Wilson. You know, all of this really to me demonstrates this really strong social components of this movie, and it’s-and it’s done through an inanimate object–I-I just think that’s-I think that’s amazing and powerful filmmaking.

Alex: Yeah. I-I will-I definitely agree about the piece of Chuck becomes Wilson device. It’s a good move. As you said, it’s a-a movie-making device, but also, we do it in our own lives. You know, we give our pets–they’re not inanimate–but we give our pets names, we talk to them, we give them voices… I know I give my dog a voice. So, we-we, and we speak for them, right? And when you’re growing up your dolls or you have action figures or something, and you speak for them too. You create different personas and stuff and that is a part of you being able to explore aspects of your your life as something else. And I think Wilson represents, well one thing, it represents a way for Chuck to not be lonely and he acts as though Wilson’s going to reply back right back-right back to him, but really it’s Chuck’s own voice replying back to him, right? And-and it’s very striking when he throws Wilson out the-out of the cave and he goes out there, and he’s like, “Wilson where are you?” Nobody’s going to say anything back to him, you know? He could have lost Wilson on the island because he couldn’t find him. Wilson’s not going to say anything. And I think that really puts a pin in the escape–

Marc: –You know I love that part of the movie– 

Alex: –He eventually does lose Wilson–

Marc: –Sorry, didn’t mean to interrupt there. You know, I watch that that scene again today, specifically that scene, and-and one of the things that was really powerful for me was, it’s the only scene in the movie where they show Chuck crying is when he loses Wilson.

Alex: I did not-I did not pick that up.

Marc: You know, he doesn’t cry when when he gets stranded on the island. They show him getting frustrated, and-and-and, you know, being upset, but they don’t show him shedding tears. You know, he lays on that raft and sheds tears because Wilson is gone. You know, I–when I, it’s just a very powerful part of the movie, you know, and I caught that today. You know, I just, you know, I decided he doesn’t cry in any part of this movie. He is-he is truly upset that Wilson is gone. You know, he doesn’t cry when he loses Kelly, he doesn’t cry when he comes back, but he cries when he loses Wilson. And you know, it’s probably because it’s-it’s because he’s losing a piece of himself. You know, he, you know, it really comes down to this idea that he’s leaving a piece of himself out there on-out there on the ocean that was represented by Wilson and he’s crying because everything that it took to get him to that point and and losing Wilson is-is that transition to-to surviving. And it’s just a very powerful scene in the movie. And one-and one that I won’t ever look at the same again.

Alex: Yeah, and this jumps us into the other social aspect of the film, which is the relationship that he had with Kelly that he ultimately loses–sorry spoiler alert. You know, he spent four years on the island. They thought he was dead. I did like that–”what did you bury?” “Oh, things…” 

Marc: Yeah, I know they go burying his pager and his cell phone… you know, and pagers for the date this movie, again, too.

Alex: Yeah your stuff. Pager dates the movie… I mean, the movie starts in 1995 so it makes a ton of sense, but yeah, they come back in 2000 and people are like “pagers, what are pagers?” But there’s a great scene at the end… it’s essentially Tom Hanks monologuing about the theme of loss and I think if he hadn’t lost Wilson he would not have come to this realization about losing Kelly. So I’m going to go ahead and play that scene for you all and I’ll come back and discuss the loss.

<fire crackling and downpour>

Chuck: We both had done the math. Kelly added it all up and… knew she had to let me go. I added it up, and knew that I had… lost her. ‘cos I was never gonna get off that island. I was gonna die there, totally alone. I was gonna get sick, or get injured or something. The only choice I had, the only thing I could control was when, and how, and where it was going to happen. So… I made a rope and I went up to the summit, to hang myself. I had to test it, you know? Of course. You know me. And the weight of the log, snapped the limb of the tree, so I-I – , I couldn’t even kill myself the way I wanted to. I had power over *nothing*. And that’s when this feeling came over me like a warm blanket. I knew, somehow, that I had to stay alive. Somehow. I had to keep breathing. Even though there was no reason to hope. And all my logic said that I would never see this place again. So that’s what I did. I stayed alive. I kept breathing. And one day my logic was proven all wrong because the tide came in, and gave me a sail. And now, here I am. I’m back. In Memphis, talking to you. I have ice in my glass… And I’ve lost her all over again. I’m so sad that I don’t have Kelly. But I’m so grateful that she was with me on that island. And I know what I have to do now. I gotta keep breathing. Because tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?

Alex: Marc, what do you think about that scene?

Marc: You know I think it’s one of my favorite-one of my favorite scenes. It’s-it’s one that just stands out to me is a very powerful scene in the-in the movie. You know it’s his realization about what he went through… It’s, you know, it’s very powerful. You know he talks about suicide in that scene. You know, he talks about not having control of anything in-in his life on that island. You know, he can’t control getting off the island. He can’t control getting back to the person he loves. He’s trapped on that island. But he feels like he can have control of-of the moment of his death and it’s very, you know, it’s very realistic, I think, portrayal of probably something that everyone would go through on that island, just in terms of how they understand their–how-how they understand their-their place in that-in that environment and what they might be thinking of to deal with it. You know, it ultimately comes down to this idea in Chuck’s mind that the only thing he had control of was deciding if and when and how he was going to die. And, you know, Chuck being Chuck in the movie, as we learn through his character, goes through the process of testing–coming up with an experiment to test technique–and it fails. And he’s alive and survives because it does fail. You know, ultimately he didn’t want to–he said he didn’t want to hurt himself and suffer on the island. He, you know, he-he wanted to make that final decision and if that was the final way he was going to go, then, you know, end his life that way. You know, it’s kind of a mental math part of the movie where, you know, in Chuck’s mind he’s kind of adding all this stuff up and coming to a conclusion–and I haven’t used it yet for this purpose but I think the next time I show this movie I think would be a great place to jump off on a discussion of a suicide and maybe have, you know, we have a great suicide prevention team on campus… and-and bring them in and have discussions about those thought processes and-and-and how we can help them deal with those things, because I think people not just on desert islands have these thoughts and so, you know, what can we do to help those individuals? What can we do to be aware of that and how can we help with their mental math so that it doesn’t equal that that ultimate solution that-that they think will solve things. 

Alex: Yeah, that’s a wonderful point actually. The suicide prevention as a piece to this, because–and-and I didn’t come to that realization either until you just said it and I think that’s because you’re not actually focused on that while he’s trapped on the island. It-t’s only afterward that you realize that he was-that he felt hopeless and you wanted to do something about it. And I think that has some really significant parallels with just regular plain old non-stranded suicidal ideation, yeah… Well those are the two main aspects of the film that I think we both picked up on, but before we end, I think we had a couple of random notes about the film that we wanted to share with our listeners here. So, one of your favorite films was the dental work scene. Walk us through that one.

Marc: Yeah, yeah, that’s a great scene. You know, the very beginning of the movie, he’s at that Christmas dinner and he’s kind of complaining about a toothache. You know, and he says he really needs to go see his dentist–and I think his dentist’s name is Dr. Spalding, which I believe–

Alex: Yes, Dr. Spalding. 

Marc: –is the same brand of volleyball that Wilson is. You know, so he’s-he’s on–his tooth is really hurting him and he’s really-he’s making a realization that if he doesn’t solve this problem of having a toothache then he is, you know, probably going to die, something bad is going to happen, cuz of this tooth. So he’s using these ice skates and, you know, he’s using these ice skates, it’s again solving problems and functional fixedness and all that stuff–use the ice skates at axes and-and rope–the-the laces to to do other things with it. And then he uses it also has a mirror and he’s looking at his tooth initially and he realizes, “OK, I need to knock this thing out.” So he is-he’s in the cave and he’s using the ice-using the ice skates as the mirror and you know he has this rock and he has his ice skate pressed up against his-his tooth–and you know, anyone who’s gone through dental work probably is cringing at this moment and it’s one of the reasons I love to watch this movie in class–and he’s he’s counting off. He like, <muffled> ”one, two…” And then he wacks the end of that skate and pops out his tooth, and kind of knocks himself out, cuz he falls down and hits his head and it’s a great transition point in the movie, too, between Newbie Chuck on the island and Seasoned Chuck on the island. Cuz I think mentally it’s this idea that, “hey if I’m going to survive on this island, I have to do this I have to do stuff that I didn’t think I was ever going to have to do like perform my own dental work. And-and by doing that I can be a survivor.” You know, ultimately it’s a-it’s a scene that I love watching in a crowd of other people because every-some people are covering their eyes and turning away and it’s just a great social moment. I’ve always liked those kind of moments within movies. You know, ultimately, I think the scene really represents this change in his mind, where he says–you know, and I just kind of said this but–”you know, if-if I’m going to if I’m going to do this if I’m going to survive I’m going to have to do some stuff on this island that I didn’t think I’d ever have to do.”

Alex: Yeah it is a really gnarly scene–oh, cringe, definitely, cringe! I don’t think anybody, even if they haven’t had significant dental work before, is going to be like, “yeah, no that’s not a problem.” They’re not going to be like that. They’re going to be like, “you are sticking a dirty-ass skate your mouth and you’re going to bang it with a rock? This-this it sounds like a great idea.”

Marc: Yeah yeah, it sounds-it sounds like a brilliant way to solve this problem.

Alex: <laughter> Exactly. It sounds like a real brilliant way to solve this problem. Not enough salt water in the world to fix that abscess, that’s for sure.

Marc: Yeah– no, no, definitely not.

Alex: And you one other, I-I guess I would call it a well-planted easter egg, I suppose–eh, maybe not easter egg–but a well-planted visual storytelling at the beginning of the film. Do you want to explain that, as well? 

Marc: Yeah, yeah, I’d love to do that. You know-you know this is one of those things I probably didn’t catch the first eight or nine times that I watched this film but the very-one of those very early scenes–opening scenes–you know, they’re panning through his office and they’re showing him with, you know, all this stuff that demonstrates that he is someone who knows how to sail, that he has skills that-that eventually will come into play for him. And-and I think it’s a really neat way to kind of, without ever saying it, without saying, “hey, Chuck is a survivor or Chuck knows how to sail, but gives you the information that he has the tools to get off this island and its really there if you pay attention but… man, I missed it for a large part of the-large number of times that I watch this movie. You know this is–stuff like this that I love in movies, cuz you catch them. Because, you know, this is one of those movies that, for example, are on cable TV all the time and that’s great movie to grade to, cuz I can jump in and just continue on with whatever I’m doing, and every time I see it there’s stuff that I see that I hadn’t caught before that adds to-to the storytelling that-that goes on in this movie. You know the stuff that they show are-are things like him on a different sizes of sailboats, from small ones to big ones, and him receiving accolades for his sailing ability and certificates of sailing. All of that just builds into this-this persona of who Chuck is and-and what skills that he brings to the island. You know, taking into context with what happens at the end of the movie, it really builds on this idea of why he’s able to solve this problem, cuz he has these skills and we don’t even know that–this no one never really said out loud but what he clearly has. You know, I think is a great aspect of this movie just in terms of filmmaking because sometimes you know those expositions like Chuck saying like, “I’m a great sailor” and saying that out loud and purposeful kind of makes it clunky and-and kind of takes away some of-of probably how this would go down and and I just think it’s a great example of-of how to make a good movie. You know, ultimately, it’s just, you know, good foreshadowing and good use of-of-of storytelling just to create a good movie–a great movie, and-and  if you’re paying attention you catch those regularly throughout.

Alex: I would definitely agree, both the filmmaking technique and the fact that it is technically foreshadowing. It was-it as we discussed in the Clockwork Orange episode with Wind that it’s better to show than tell. And-and I wanted to mention this last-in-in that episode too, I-I am an avid watcher of the YouTube channel CinemaSins and their Everything Wrong With, you know, “insert film here” and consistently a sin in these films is too much exposition. So much so that and there’s so much exposition, that they all get different names depending on what rhymes with -position, or not rhymes with, what fits with -position, so you know, like “sailposition” You know, you know, we don’t need to know, or Chuck doesn’t need to tell everyone like, “I’m an awesome sailor!” You know, it probably fits with his character that he’s a sailor and knowing-I-I fitting with the time thing–I don’t know much about sailing so I don’t want to say more than that <laughter> but I think it fits with his character when we first meet him, which is, you know, you’re-you’re this clock… this clock is yours… live and die by this clock. And it’s quite interesting–this was–I had a couple of notes that I wanted to add…With the timepiece–that is a pun because one of the features of the film is that he has a pocket watch from Kelly–so the timepiece–ha ha ha!–he has that throughout the film with him on the island and that’s his way of keeping Kelly with him and it is broken. The clock doesn’t work anymore. And so all he has is this keepsake and no more time, which is, you know, the entire theme of the film, essentially. And the other-the other note that I had about this film is the end. Not the very end, but when he returns to civilization, FedEx throws a big old party for him–”please don’t sue us” party. Not explicit, but he does have to meet with lawyers and they throw a big party for him and at this party when everybody’s leaving one guy says, “hey we should go fishing sometime!” Wow, way to be a real jerk. And then everyone leaves and they are panning over the food dishes and they had crab and other fancy foods… and it’s like, yo, he ate crab for 1500 days. Do you think he wants crab? Probably not. Give him a big fat juicy cheeseburger or something… Oh my goodness. Oh there was sushi there too… I was like wow, straight savage these people. “You know what he would like in his transition back to civilization?” “The things that he was trying to escape from.”

Marc: Yeah, I know, I love that part of the movie too, cuz it just-it’s so, you know, inappropriate in what ways they provide and and you know, he just wants ice, you know. He, on the plane ride home, he asks for two cups of ice and one drink and that’s-that’s what he wants–he wants stuff he didn’t have.

Alex: Right, exactly! Which should tell you he wants the things he missed the most. You know people and things–he wanted the ice and he’s like “man, I love ice.” He had no way to make ice for 1500 days, and then-and then yeah… and then FedEx throws him a party with crab, sushi, and a jackass that says “hey let’s go fishing.”

Marc: Yeah, it’s funny you mention the fishing line-the fishing guy because I hadn’t caught that until today when I watched that-the end of that movie. I was watching the end of it at the end of my class–students were working in the computer lab and I actually mentioned that to my research-my teaching assistant. You know just like-you know, talking about this guy, “hey let’s go fishing!” and-and it’s just yeah… it’s funny and makes me laugh. This one of-those one of those things, again, you notice when you watch this movie over and over again.

Alex: The guy also does the-the reel hand gesture like reeling in.. I’m like, bro he didn’t-he didn’t actually have a fishing pole while stranded on a deserted island.

Marc: Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know, I’m sure Chuck could fish them all under the table with his spears… 

Alex: He totally would. He would-he would definitely… he would definitely…

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Alex: Alrighty, I think that’s going to do it for this episode! Marc, I want to thank you for joining me to talk about Cast Away. I hope you learned something, listeners out there! I certainly did. Please please please like and subscribe to this podcast and if you have a few extra dollars laying around, please support our process here. We are grassroots, crowdsourced-crowdfunded, I mean, podcast. Marc, say-go ahead and say goodbye to everyone.

Marc: Yes, thank you everyone. And, you know, I enjoy this movie and I hope you all enjoy it, and I could talk about it any day of the week.

Alex: Thank you, Dr. Marc Klippenstine, for joining me to discuss Cast Away. I am excited to re-watch this now, again… with a–and perhaps assign it in my classes. Until the next episode… thanks for listening! 

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